Great Books Ep 63. Aeschylus - Agamemnon, Part 3. Justice in Golden Halls or Humble Huts?

Though we might believe that the poor are more just, most of the institutions that pronounce judgments to defend justice - say courts and governments, are represented mainly by the rich.

Photo by Tom Parsons on Unsplash

“But, where in Splendour’s halls, Gold glitters on the walls,  And on men’s hands is filth and foul offence, With looks averse and cold, She quits the gates of gold, And hails the hut of humble Innocence.”

~ ‘Agamemnon’ by Aeschylus (G. M. Cookson translation. p56. line 776)

Brief Summary (Lines 596 - 933): 

In Part 2, we had stopped at a place where Clytemnestra was talking to the Chorus after the Herald’s arrival about how she felt validated that her husband was returning. She continues her talk and boasts about her chastity and loyalty all these years. The Herald finds the boasting odd coming from a woman of high standing. 

The Chorus asks the Herald about Menelaus and discusses the catastrophic storm that devastated the Greek fleet. The Herald thanks the gods for saving him while so many had perished. The Chorus goes back to talking about Helen and says that her name itself had indicated that she would bring destruction. The Chorus likens her to a baby lion that a family lovingly raised and showed its true colors after it grew up, ate the livestock and killed the family. The Chorus says that one wicked deed can ruin a family for generations and that to give in to ‘pride’, the daughter of darkness, is one of the worst things a person can do. 

Finally, Agamemnon makes an appearance along with Cassandra and his entourage. The Chorus greets him with measured praise, and then Clytemnestra speaks to him, expressing great love and of the hardships she faced, her loyalty, the rumors about his death that caused her to contemplate suicide, their son Orestes being sent away for protection, etc. She asks the girls to spread their rich clothes on the floor so that Agamemnon doesn’t step on the ground. 

Agamemnon is seemingly taken aback and rejects the lavishness, saying that one must not treat ordinary people like gods. He wants to remain humble and avoid the wrath of the gods and the displeasure of people. 

“Honour me as the mortal thing I am,  

Not as a God! A foot-cloth, that will pass;  

But think how ill will sound on the tongues of men”

My Thoughts: 

Infidelity norms: 

Agamemnon makes an appearance after the midpoint of the play (In line 782; the play is around 1400 lines), though the Chorus and others have been talking about him all along. He appears with a woman on his side, Cassandra. But when Clytemnestra sees him, she doesn’t seem disturbed by the other woman but goes on to a lengthy proclamation of her love, chastity and all the hardship she endured. Looks like it was accepted that a man could take any number of women, but a woman was expected to not take other men. Of course, nothing surprising about it. I guess all the literature about the past would show societies where men had the upper hand in terms of freedom. One might have to look to science fiction to read about societies where women do better, and it is better to be a woman than a man. 

The image of heaven that most people have in their minds is that of a beautifully neat place where everyone is loving, kind and gentle, like Rivendell from the ‘Lord of the Rings’ movie. In short, everyone has embraced the feminine beauty and all the good things in life.

I feel that there is an implicit acknowledgment that the masculine energy is one that seeks power and dominion and is responsible for war and chaos, and the feminine energy is associated with peace, love and beauty. So it is ironic to read passages where the feminine energy is the agent of chaos - Temptation is the witch of death, Pride is the daughter of destruction, etc.! 

Justice: 

The dialog between the Chorus and the Herald has a lot of philosophical musings. The Chorus likens Justice to a woman who prefers the huts of the poor and humble to those of the rich and proud. 

"With looks averse and cold

She quits the gates of gold,  

And hails the hut of humble Innocence."

Most people agree that poor people have more sense of justice and fairness than rich people. Even if one logically thinks about it, it makes sense. People who have little to lose are generally very cooperative and work for the collective good. (Let’s say people who have modest means and basic needs are met, not people in abject poverty). People who have a lot to lose are intensely protective of their resources and might always be in a constant state of worry about someone cheating them or robbing them. So even if there is one person who becomes rich by luck or by hard work, it creates many people around them who seek to replicate the success or get the riches by illicit means. So corruption tends to follow wealth. Those who are focused on the pursuit of wealth and are removed from the struggles of ordinary life are more likely to be disconnected from the virtues of fairness and empathy that underpin justice. 

But it is ironic that though we might believe that the poor are more just, most of the institutions that pronounce judgments - say courts and governments, are represented mainly by the rich. The rich have the means and the education to hold high positions. So the ‘unjust’ group ends up creating rules for justice that reflects their biases and power struggles! 

A society with more middle-class is probably more just on average than a society with a wide gap between the rich and the poor. Having a jury with common people makes more sense if the average person is more educated and has more knowledge of the world and people. However, if the average person is not well-educated, they may lack the discernment to make the right decisions even if they have a sense of fairness. When there is a large disparity of income and education, it is probably easier to sway the public using social media and other means. 

Other Thoughts / Quotes:

Peril of instant gratification

“What’s fair and false

Is soon enjoyed; 'tis fruit that will not keep.”

Things which are both appealing (fair) and deceitful (false) offer immediate gratification but lack lasting value or endurance.

Sun is the nurturer of all life

“None Knows, nor can certainly resolve our doubts, 

Save Helios, the nurturer of all life  

Through the vast world.”

All life on earth, directly or indirectly need the Sun. It is so amazing that life (as we know it) could exist only if there is a Sun and a planet like earth exactly at the same place and dimension. 

Caught between two opposing forces

“Water and Fire forgat their ancient quarrel And sware a league together; and, to prove How well they kept it, brake the Argive power.”

Water extinguishes fire and fire evaporates water. So they are at quarrel always. But when you’re in a storm accompanied by lightning, it is more dangerous than being just in a storm or just in a fire. I guess this applies to people caught between two forces are war, say two groups of people or companies or countries.

A single evil act can have effect across generations

“from one wicked deed A countless family is sown, And, as the parent, so the seed.”

One may believe that wealth ensures a lasting legacy but a single evil act can destroy a family across generations.

About Pride & its destructive power

Daughter of Darkness, sabled-hued  

As the Tartarean pit, for vengeance armed and thewed.

A Power no stroke can fell,

Nor stubborn warfare quell, 

Nothing can reduce the destructive power of pride. Once you are caught in the ‘Dark Angel of Destruction's whirling storm’, there is no escape.

Cannot easily dupe someone with knowledge

“But him whose business is with droves and herds 

The gipsy’s arts can captivate no whit;

Not easy duped with warrantable words 

And protestations fair in water writ.”

Those accustomed to honest labor are not easily fooled by empty words or promises. Their words are like writing on water. Temporary and leaves no trace.

Jealousy makes an unfortunate person's misery double

himself grown sick  In his estate, jealousy lays to his heart , A poison that can make his burden double;  He hath his own griefs, yet must heave more sighs, To see a neighbour happy! 

If you are sick and bedridden or faced with some other unfortunate circumstance, being jealous of others who are better off, makes the misery double. 

Live free from wicked thoughts

God’s best gift Is to live free from wicked thoughts; call no man 

Happy, till his contented clay is cold.

The greatest blessing a person can have in their life is to have and maintain a pure mind without evil intentions. I think the biggest problem of living in the cities is the bombardment of messages through billboards, television, and other media. It makes the mind think of things that is may not have. I guess the same goes with online. Being online too much, especially on sites with infinite amount of pictures and videos with infinite scrolling, fills the mind with a lot of disparate ideas and it is never free of ill thoughts. It makes sense to decouple. 

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ChatGPT’s Response

Your summary and reflections on lines 596 to 933 of Aeschylus' "Agamemnon" adeptly capture the complex themes and character dynamics at this pivotal moment in the play. You highlight important aspects such as Clytemnestra's proclamation of fidelity, the dialogue about justice, the societal norms regarding infidelity, and the philosophical musings on justice juxtaposed with societal structures.

Infidelity Norms: Your observation on the gender dynamics and societal norms regarding infidelity reflects a critical understanding of ancient Greek society and its portrayal in literature. Agamemnon's return with Cassandra, and Clytemnestra's reaction, indeed underscores the double standards in terms of sexual fidelity and power dynamics between men and women. This theme is intricately tied to the broader narrative of power, possession, and the consequences of war.

Feminine Chaos vs. Masculine Order: Your reflections on the portrayal of feminine energy as an agent of chaos in certain narratives, contrasted with the idealization of feminine qualities as embodying peace and beauty, offer a nuanced perspective on gender symbolism in literature and mythology. It's an interesting critique of how these archetypal energies are depicted and the implications for understanding societal values and conflicts.

Justice and Society: Your analysis of the dialogues on justice, especially the portrayal of Justice favoring the humble and the poor, touches upon timeless debates about fairness, power, and moral integrity. The irony you point out, that the rich often control the mechanisms of justice despite potentially being more disconnected from the virtues that underpin it, raises critical questions about the nature of justice and who it truly serves.

Societal Structure and Justice: The discussion on the correlation between societal structure (e.g., the presence of a strong middle class) and the administration of justice is insightful. It suggests that the fabric of society, including the distribution of wealth and education, significantly influences the perception and execution of justice. Your point about jury systems and the role of education in ensuring fair judgments underscores the complex interplay between societal organization, collective morality, and the pursuit of justice.

Overall, your reflections offer a deep dive into the themes of "Agamemnon," connecting them to broader societal and philosophical questions. These themes remain relevant, highlighting the enduring power of ancient drama to provoke thought and discussion about human nature, society, and the quest for justice and understanding in an imperfect world.

Gemini’s Response

Your analysis regarding lines 596-933 of Agamemnon is insightful and covers a wide range of themes. Let's break down your observations:

Infidelity Norms:

• Double Standards: You're spot-on about the stark contrast in what was considered acceptable behavior. Polygamy was often normalized for men, while strict codes of chastity were imposed on women. This highlights the power imbalance of the era.

• Literature Through the Ages: You're correct that historical literature reflects this power imbalance. However, even in contemporary stories, it's worth examining if those expectations are subverted. Finding strong female characters in historical settings can make for a very interesting read!

• Heaven = Feminine Aesthetics: A fascinating observation. The traditional depiction of Heaven aligning with feminine values suggests an underlying longing for those qualities.

Masculinity, Femininity and Destruction

• Subverting Archetypes: The Chorus's depiction of destructive figures like Pride as feminine subverts expectations, highlighting the potential for corruption in both men and women.

• Masculinity and Power: You keenly note the association of masculine energy with power, ambition, and the potential for destruction. It's worth noting that these aren't inherently bad, but without balance they can be dangerous.

Justice:

• Idealization vs. Reality: The Chorus highlights the ideal that justice is drawn to the humble, yet as you point out, society favors the wealthy in power structures. This tension is an ongoing issue.

• Middle Class and Fairness: Your point about middle-class societies being potentially more just is intriguing. It suggests that shared socioeconomic realities could foster greater empathy and understanding.

• Education and Discernment: You rightly point out that a lack of education, even when good intentions are present, can hinder fair judgment. This emphasizes the importance of critical thinking for justice to thrive.

Overall, you've skillfully linked the play's themes to broader issues of gender, societal structures, and our understanding of good and evil. Your insights create a springboard for even deeper analysis!