Great Books Ep 62. Aeschylus - Agamemnon, Part 2. Deliver us from Evil: Differing views on Morality and Temptation
What is temptation? One could define it to broadly refer to the urge to perform an action that is considered undesirable as per the beliefs of the group one is in.
“Whoso resisteth not Her dangerous lure, There is no herb of grace can work his cure, Nor any shift To hide the gleaming woe;”
~ ‘Agamemnon’ by Aeschylus (G. M. Cookson translation. p56. line 385)
Brief Summary (Lines 367 - 596)
It is almost halfway through the play, and the main character, Agamemnon, has yet to enter the scene. After Clytemnestra exits, the Chorus goes on to talk about divine justice, the folly of hubris, and the consequences of transgression, pinning the tragic events in Troy to Paris’ actions. They talk about how Helen’s abduction caused not only embarrassment but also communal grief and a sense of disillusionment. Finally, a herald arrives and announces the Greek victory. Then there is a conversation between the Chorus and the herald where herald talks about his relief and gratitude to gods for being back and bitterness about spending the last ten years in misery. Clytemnestra enters and chides the Chorus for not believing her earlier and is happy to have celebrarted when she got the beacon signal.
My Thoughts
‘Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil one’ is a daily prayer for many people. I think most religions focus a lot on resisting temptation and predicting doom or punishment for those who succumb to it. But what is temptation? Is it an extramarital affair? Is it overeating? Isn’t it different across cultures? Something that one culture feels is a sin could be viewed as a person’s right in another culture. Since religion is more tied to culture than something universal, ‘divine laws’ differ across religions. For e.g., consuming alcohol or eating meat (or certain type of meat) is strictly prohibited in some religions/cultures, while it is the way of life in others.
What about places where religion is not a dominant force? I guess even places that don’t emphasize religion have it in a different form. It could be the religion of ‘work ethic’, which, though people don’t recognize it as a formal religion, has its own codes that people are generally expected to abide by, creating a framework for what is considered virtuous or sinful behavior. In a society that has the core value of ‘work ethic’ and idolizes individuals who are fully dedicated to their work and producing exceptional results, anything that impacts productivity at work is viewed as a sin. If one is working all the time and even sleeping in the office, where is the time to have an extramarital affair, indulge in leisure activities, or take a long break?
So, ‘temptation’ is not a fixed concept and could broadly refer to the urge to perform an action that is considered undesirable as per the beliefs of the group one is in. As people move from one country/region/place to another, it might be better to understand the norms of the place and not indulge in behaviors that are sinful in the local place. Say one is used to having meat daily, drinking alcohol daily and is used to hook up with different people and goes to another place where these are considered immoral. It is better not to yield to temptation and do these things in secret because then you will give the power away and become the victim. Humans have a remarkable capacity for self-discipline and can adapt to a wide range of codes and standards, but being constantly on guard against one’s natural inclinations or habits can be exhausting and challenging. The easier thing is always to not put oneself into situations or places that can make one sin though it can lead to limiting one’s potential life experiences.
One could argue that human life is very short, and a fulfilling life is one that has had a variety of experiences. However, one must balance the need to have varied experiences with the negative impact something could have on one’s self-preservation and reputation.
ChatGPT’s Response
Your post provides a thoughtful reflection on the play "Agamemnon" by Aeschylus, connecting its themes to broader questions about human behavior, temptation, and cultural norms. You effectively summarize key plot points and character interactions in the first half of the play, highlighting the herald's announcement and Clytemnestra's response as central moments. Your discussion then transitions into a broader philosophical and ethical exploration of temptation, considering its variability across different cultural and social contexts. Here are some comments and suggestions for further exploration:
Cultural Relativism and Ethical Universality: You've touched on an important aspect of cultural relativism—how actions considered sinful or virtuous can vary significantly between cultures. It might be enriching to explore how these differences challenge the notion of universal ethics or moral absolutes. Are there underlying values common across cultures, or is morality entirely context-dependent?
Work Ethic as a Secular Religion: The comparison between work ethic and religion is intriguing, especially in how societal norms can create a moral framework analogous to religious codes. Expanding on this idea, it could be beneficial to discuss the potential consequences of idolizing work, such as burnout, alienation, or the neglect of other life domains. How do societies find balance, and what happens when the 'religion' of work conflicts with other values?
The Role of Self-Discipline: Your discussion on self-discipline as a means to resist temptation raises questions about the nature of willpower and its limits. Psychological research on self-control, including the concept of ego depletion, could provide additional insights into why constantly being on guard against temptation is so challenging. Discussing strategies for managing temptations—such as changing one's environment, mindfulness, or finding deeper motivations—might offer valuable perspectives on navigating these challenges.
Consequences of Yielding to Temptation: You mention the potential negative impacts on self-preservation and reputation when yielding to temptation. This could be expanded to include the emotional and psychological effects of acting against one's values or societal norms. How do individuals reconcile these actions with their sense of self, and what role does forgiveness (self and societal) play in this process?
The Value of Varied Experiences: Lastly, your point about balancing the desire for varied experiences with their potential negative impacts opens up a discussion about risk-taking, growth, and the meaning of fulfillment. Delving into the idea that challenging experiences, including those that involve resisting or succumbing to temptation, contribute to personal growth and understanding could enrich your reflection.
Overall, your post offers a nuanced consideration of temptation, cultural norms, and the pursuit of a fulfilling life, using "Agamemnon" as a springboard for these reflections. Further exploring these themes could enhance the depth and breadth of your analysis, inviting readers to contemplate the complexities of human behavior and morality.
Gemini’s Response
Your post presents a thoughtful analysis of the themes within the play Agamemnon and connects them to broader concepts of temptation, morality, and cultural norms. Here's a breakdown of your thoughts and some additional points to consider:
Strengths:
Insightful Connections: You make strong connections between the play's themes and the real-world complexities of temptation. Bringing in the "work ethic" example is particularly effective for a modern audience.
Nuanced Perspective: You recognize temptation isn't universal and varies across cultures. Additionally, you discuss the internal struggle it can cause, suggesting a more empathetic view beyond simple condemnation.
Practical Considerations: Your final points acknowledge the challenges of managing temptations while adapting to different contexts. The tension between experiencing diverse things and maintaining safety/reputation is an interesting dilemma.
Areas for Further Exploration:
The Chorus's Role: While the play's themes of divine justice, hubris (pride), and transgression are evident, consider how the Chorus guides the audience's understanding. Do they just highlight the morals, or add a layer of complexity?
Agamemnon's Absence: The tension created by Agamemnon's absence is crucial, although you don't address it. Does his delay highlight the potential for things to spiral out of control and thus increase the potential for characters to succumb to temptation?
Free Will vs. Fate: The play might suggest characters are trapped by their circumstances and past actions. Could temptation be seen as an inevitable result of a predetermined course? How does this affect our view of characters like Clytemnestra?
Additional Points:
Self-Discipline vs. Avoidance: While self-discipline is important, complete avoidance of tempting situations can create its own problems. Is there a middle ground for managing temptation constructively?
Variety of Experiences: While a life filled with diverse experiences is attractive, there is also value in depth and sustained focus in fewer areas. This can lead to fulfillment as well.
The Impact on Others: Your last paragraph focuses on self-preservation. It's worth noting how succumbing to temptation can negatively impact relationships, groups, and trust.
Overall, your analysis shows a good understanding of the play's themes and a willingness to engage with their broader implications. Continuing to explore the nuances of these concepts will further enrich your understanding of both the play and human behavior in general.
Other Thoughts/Quotes
The lure of temptation
“To force the plot That her dam, Death, hath hatched, Temptation cometh, that foul witch unmatched;
Whoso resisteth not Her dangerous lure, There is no herb of grace can work his cure, Nor any shift To hide the gleaming woe;
When that pale spot, that did so faintly show, With ever widening rift Of ruinous light, Glares to the gazing world, malignly bright.
Then, as your pinchbeck brass The ring of gold assays, The rub of doom, with many a fateful pass, The black that specks his soul bewrays.”
Temptation is a witch that Death has hatched. If you don’t resist her dangerous lure, no herb can cure you, you cannot hide from the sorrow later. A small sin, like a pale dot can become larger and glow for everyone to see. Like gold-plated brass that is revealed to be fake on rubbing, a person’s true nature is revealed during tests with temptation.
Made me think why temptation was likened to a woman. Probably adultery was the biggest temptation in the past. People didn’t have modern work or social media to be engaged with. In short, there are more temptations now.
Also the lingering question of whether some people are more prone to temptation than others. That they get revealed at the first brush with temptation.
Greeks cremated bodies
“For them that fell too light a freight, For them that mourn a grievous weight, All in a clay-cold jar so civilly inurned.”
I did write a post in the past wondering if Cremation better than burial (Great Books Ep 5: The Tomb or the Ash: What is dead may never die). In this context it was better because they were able to transport the ashes back.
Desire for a simple existence
“Give me the ease of an unenvied lot; To be hailed "Conqueror" delights me not; But let me ne'er so far from Fortune's favour fall As live life's abject and my master's thrall.”
I guess most people don’t seek power or fame. They want to lead a peaceful existence in obscurity but have a lot of money. It is when you don’t have money or enough to sustain self that you have to work, interact with people you don’t align with, etc. But it is not that simple also. Most people don’t have a choice because of people who rule/govern a place.
The speed of rumor
“Rumour runs fast through every street, As fire the tidings bloweth; If true—or a divine deceit Where is the man that knoweth?”
Rumor spreads rapidly even now, maybe faster now than in the past. People have a natural inclination to create rumors. One could wonder if in modern times rumors online are manufactured by countries and corporations to mislead people or competition.
Is it a privilege to lament past hardship?
“Why moan all this? 'Tis past; and for the dead Is past the need ever to rise again. Or, why tell o'er the count of those cut off, Or call to mind that to survive is still To live obnoxious to calamity?”
I guess it is usually the victors who lament the hardships of the past, carrying it around like a badge of honor. Also to indicate how far they have come in life.
People always have skepticism towards new technology
‘And one of you Did gird me then, saying, “Dost think Troy sacked Because men set a match to wood?— By God, A woman's heart is lightly lifted up.” So they supposed me crazed; and still I made Oblation; and a general cry of joy Most womanly!— rent the air; and in the shrines’
Clytemnestra saw the beacon message and started celebrations. People who didn’t understand the technology of the message transmission did not believe her. In fact, it looks like they mocked her. Feels similar to people who have skepticism about AI.