Great Books Ep 59. Aeschylus - The Seven Against Thebes. Part 2. Between Duty and Decree: Navigating Personal Beliefs and Societal Laws
How does one find a balance between personal conviction and collective norms? When personal beliefs are at odds with the laws of the land, they can be the cause of a lot of sadness.
Generated by ChatGPT - “An image in 16:9 aspect ratio, visually representing the conflict between individual beliefs and societal laws with symbolic elements across different eras.”
Tell your good lords that I will bury him If none will help me. If it be dangerous To bury mine own brother, I am ready! Shame have I none for this rebellion!
~ ‘The Seven Against Thebes’ by Aeschylus (G. M. Cookson translation. p38. line 1032)
Brief Summary (lines 700-1084/end)
The last part set the stage for the fight, where each of the seven gates had a warrior to match the warrior on the other side, with Eteocles and Polynices at the seventh gate. Eteocles goes to fight in spite of the warnings from others. The fighting is not depicted in the play. A messenger comes in a little while later to announce that both the brothers killed themselves. We get to know more details about the curse on the family. Oedipus's father was not supposed to have offspring, but he has, and Oedipus ends up killing his father and marrying his mother, who, when she comes to know, kills herself, and Oedipus blinds himself. Now, both his sons are dead. The Chorus and the sisters of Eteocles and Polynices, Antigone and Ismene, are overcome with grief and lament the deaths. A herald arrives and declares the mandate from the Governors that Eteocles is to be buried with honors, but Polynices' body is to be thrown out of the city walls. Antigone opposes the decree, saying that she will bury Polynices with honors. The herald is outraged and surprised, asking whether she would flout the authority. The play concludes with more lamentations from the Chorus. The first half decides to go with Antigone to bury Polynices, and the second half with Eteocles' corpse, saying that he saved the city of Cadmus from ruin.
My Thoughts
Antigone defying the official decree and wanting to bury Polynices with honors required a lot of courage and conviction. Polynices was considered a traitor and someone who tried to destroy the city. So, the popular sentiment is against him. But Antigone is not able to let go of her love and sense of duty to her brother. It made me think that what a person believes in can be at odds with the law of the land in many instances. The belief system of humans is so varied, and a person's belief system may be dependent not only on myriads of experiences they have had but also on all the people they are connected to. Love of kin and religious convictions are very powerful forces.
The law is generally based on consensus on what is good for the general public. Consensus by a group of scholars or people in authority. Let's say we broadly categorize laws into two groups - laws based on logical understanding of the world and laws based on religious principles.
When laws are grounded on logic and first principles, they usually hold ground for significant periods of time. Also, these laws are flexible to take into account changes in societies, such as newer understanding of the world and newer technologies. The world is moving at a faster pace with every generation, and technological advances like cell phones, the Internet and the cyber world, better understanding of the human body and mind, exploration of space and planets outside of the Earth, etc., are just a few examples.
But when laws are grounded on mystical things and supernatural elements that can't be validated or explained, they may not stay for too long or become increasingly disconnected from the realities of ordinary people. Another problem with laws that are based on religion is that they are based on an understanding of the world by a small group of people in the past. Considering them as tenets set in stone and unchangeable, totally sacred, and unquestionable opens the door for people in power to oppress others. It also makes people think in terms of us vs. them and sets the stage for misunderstandings and chaos.
Of course, most countries try to appease both groups and have laws that are a combination of different ideologies. People's beliefs can vary, and it is probably better for society if all the people are law-abiding citizens. This becomes even more critical as so many people migrate to different parts of the world with varying systems of values and beliefs. As the old saying goes, 'When in Rome, be a Roman.' people who are going to a different part of the world should align themselves with the laws of that land. But it is easier said than done. It is much tougher to change one's belief system. If a person strongly believes in burial, but if the law of the land (say due to lack of space) is that the body has to be cremated, then what does the person do other than cremating and feeling sad their whole life? Beliefs are meant to be anchors to help a person deal with the complexities of life, but when they are at odds with the laws of the land, they can be the cause of a lot of sadness.
So, I think one way to avoid sadness and disappointment is to have an open mind. But if the world is going to be taken over by religious zealots and if a person with an open mind needs to abide by the laws that don't make sense to them at all, what can they do? Looks like it is tough to avoid being disappointed with the laws of a place unless ordinary people improve their critical thinking and belief systems slowly converge to things that everyone can understand.
ChatGPT’s Response
Your reflections on "The Seven Against Thebes" and its implications for contemporary issues of law, belief, and societal integration delve into the timeless struggle between individual convictions and collective norms. Here are some thoughts on the points you raised, focusing on the balance between personal beliefs and legal compliance, the nature of laws, and the role of open-mindedness in navigating these challenges:
Personal Beliefs vs. Societal Laws: The conflict between Antigone's personal duty to her brother and the edict of Thebes underscores a fundamental tension in societies: how to reconcile individual beliefs with laws that represent collective consensus. This tension is not merely a theoretical issue but a practical one, affecting individuals who navigate multicultural, multi-faith, and pluralistic societies today. Laws often serve as the framework within which diverse beliefs can coexist, yet they may also challenge deeply held convictions, as highlighted in your reflection.
Nature of Laws: You categorize laws into those based on logic and first principles and those grounded in religious or mystical beliefs. This dichotomy highlights an important aspect of legal philosophy: the basis upon which laws are founded and their adaptability to societal changes. Laws based on rational principles tend to be more flexible and can evolve with advancements in knowledge and technology. In contrast, laws rooted in immutable religious tenets can sometimes resist change, even when societal norms shift. Balancing these types of laws is a challenge for any society, especially in an era of rapid technological and social change.
Migration and Cultural Integration: The maxim "When in Rome, be a Roman" suggests a pragmatic approach to cultural integration, advocating for adherence to the laws of the host society. However, this approach may oversimplify the complex process of integration, especially when deeply held beliefs are at odds with local laws. Finding ways to respect individual beliefs while ensuring the smooth functioning of society requires nuanced policies and a legal framework that can accommodate diversity within a unified legal structure.
Open-mindedness and Societal Progress: Your call for open-mindedness and improved critical thinking is crucial for navigating the challenges posed by conflicting beliefs and laws. Open-mindedness not only facilitates personal growth but also promotes societal harmony by encouraging empathy and understanding across diverse perspectives. It is through open dialogue, education, and a willingness to question and adapt that societies can find common ground in an increasingly interconnected world.
The Role of Individual Agency: Ultimately, individuals play a critical role in shaping their societies. By engaging in constructive dialogue, advocating for change where necessary, and respecting the delicate balance between personal convictions and the common good, individuals contribute to the evolution of laws and norms that reflect the best of human values.
Your reflection touches on themes that are central to the human condition: the search for justice, the struggle for autonomy, and the quest for a harmonious society. These themes, so vividly depicted in ancient tragedies, continue to resonate today, reminding us of the enduring power of literature to illuminate the complexities of life and society.
Gemini’s Response
Your summary of the final section of "Seven Against Thebes" is excellent. You deftly capture the tragic fallout of the battle, Antigone's courageous defiance, and the lingering shadow of the family curse. Here's a deeper dive into your insightful thoughts:
Antigone: Courage, Conviction, and Conflict
You rightfully emphasize the courage it took for Antigone to stand against the prevailing authority and popular sentiment. This speaks to the immense power of loyalty and belief.
It's essential to recognize that Antigone's actions didn't arise from simple disobedience. They were rooted in a fundamental conflict between familial and religious duty versus obedience to an edict perceived as unjust and cruel. This is the central dilemma at the heart of her story.
Laws: Grounded in Logic vs. Religion
Your distinction between laws based on logic and those on religious principles is key. We can see both in the play: Creon's edict forbidding Polynices' burial seems an exercise in political authority, while Antigone's actions are propelled by her faith and sense of familial obligation.
You mention change – laws grounded in logic adapt better because they reflect evolving understandings of justice, science, and society. Laws rooted in unchangeable religious doctrine risk obsolescence and conflict with lived reality. This tension remains present throughout history and in numerous modern debates.
Beliefs, Migration, and Conflict
Your point about migration in a globalized world is spot-on. Laws often reflect a dominant value system, but when they collide with deeply held beliefs of newcomers, this becomes a serious social challenge.
"When in Rome..." is ideal, but changing your whole worldview at will is near impossible. This speaks to the importance of tolerance and laws that strive for flexibility where possible, without eroding the sense of order a society needs.
The Power and Burden of Beliefs
I love how you highlight that beliefs ideally exist to anchor us, yet if those anchors don't harmonize with our surroundings, they cause strife. There's a poignant irony here.
Your point about open-mindedness is crucial. Unfortunately, many power structures rely on rigid belief systems for control. Encouraging critical thinking is perhaps the best way to create laws that can evolve to truly serve the greater good.
Overall, your reflections touch on themes of loyalty, authority, and the complexities of a pluralistic society – issues as relevant today as in ancient Greece. You make a strong case for open-mindedness and critical thinking as keys to navigating these tensions.
Afterthought
Gemini’s mention of Creon made me think if he is mentioned as the person who took over the reins after Eteocles’ death. No, it is not mentioned. This play mentions ‘Governors appointed by the people of the realm Cadmean’ (line 1011). There is a mention of Megareus, Creon’s son who was sent to guard the third gate.
But I got to know that Creon is Eteocles’ uncle and he takes over the realm, when I read a couple of articles on Antigone. I was interested in Antigone since it is the name of Rachel McAdams’ character (Antigone ‘Ani’ Bezzereides) in True Detective Season 2. The fact that her father lived in this spiritual commune made me realize that even people who live in spiritual communes might be believing that their belief systems are above the laws of the land.